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To purge or not to purge?

by: ericf

Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 23:27:25 PM CST


(With Stupak-Pitts on the House side and Lincoln iffy on the Senate side (to say nothing of the ideologically flexible Joe Lieberman, who just a few years ago was advocating strongly for a public health insurance option), this is an important issue to discuss. - promoted by Joe Bodell)

Updated

The recent news about the decision by State Senator Steve Dille not to run for reelection because he can't win the GOP endorsement got me thinking about purging elected officials who too often defy their own party, but I'm trying to think more deeply than just schadenfreude over the deterioration of the Republicans. Maybe they're not entirely wrong. If a party stands for some principles, and a given office holder or candidate too frequently opposes those principles, don't party activists have a right to try to replace them? On the Democratic side, I recently suggested trying to defeat incumbents who are doing more harm than good in relation to health care reform, specifically the Stupak-Pitts amendment.

Perhaps the mistake Republicans have fallen into is looking at it as either/or: either you let incumbents do anything as long as they bear your party label, or you purge anyone who strays from the party line at all. I'm suggesting Democrats be a bit more nuanced.

I'm thinking of several cases where a candidate or incumbent faced an intraparty challenge ---  cases which happen to come to memory, so unless someone is ready to make up for the loss of my full time job so I can research more thoroughly, understand that I'm almost surely missing some that would be useful ---  and I think I can pick out some useful questions to answer before deciding whether to challenge a given blue dog or conservadem. Let these help establish guidelines, with an understanding there are always exceptions, and if we're to be nuanced, then there are many factors involved in any challenge.

ericf :: To purge or not to purge?
If the challenger wins, can the party keep the seat?
The Republicans seem to give little thought to how red a district is before they start challenging. We should be more nuanced, and consider whether the incumbent Democrat is the only sort of Democrat who could win that seat. My sense is Republicans don't ask that question, which may explain Doug Hoffman in NY 23. Though the district long leaned Republican, Obama did win it, so maybe the local Republicans picked the sort of Republican who could win the seat. Maybe a candidate who brown-noses Glenn Beck wasn't the best choice. By contrast, when the netroots got behind Donna Edwards in Maryland 4 to defeat blue dog Al Wynn, this was a safe Democratic seat, with little likelihood of handing it the Republicans. However, to make the risk clear, I know of no instances of an intraparty challenger improving the odds of holding a seat except where the incumbent was involved in a scandal. If anyone knows of an example, please tell us in the comments (and I'll get into where I think I see one such instance for 2010, but no fair skipping ahead).

We especially have to be careful given how only a wingnut can win a Republicans nomination currently. Maybe a blue dog who opposes his party on half the important votes is an improvement. A corporate Democrat attached to reality would be an improvement over a Republican who is principled and delusional.

What will the incumbent do if he survives the challenge?
We may not have thought Joe Lieberman couldn't be worse, or might be chastened into voting like a Democrat again, but he instead has lost any semblance of party unity. That link is a spoof, but I expect readers recall his lying about Obama at the Republican convention, and he now threatens to filibuster any bill with a public option. My guess is the chance to screw over the Democrats is just too good to pass up. So should he have been allowed to cruise in the primary so he wouldn't get mean later? I don't know, but I am saying it's a consideration that the challenged incumbent might retaliate if in a position to do so. He might even switch parties, as Arlen Spector did when his primary defeat seemed certain. I expect there are examples where the challenged politician hung on, but took a warning and got more in line with his party, and I'm just not thinking of those cases right now --- so again, please use comments for examples.

There's nothing cowardly about pondering this question when deciding whether to mount a challenge. It's just a matter of thinking a move ahead: if the challenge fails, what are the consequences?

Is there a strong enough challenger?
We hate to tell an earnest candidate we won't help because he has no hope, especially if he's a big improvement on the issues. In words I might regret if ever I run for something someday, resources are limited and we have to pick our fights. Republicans might have screwed up NY 23 by backing a lousy candidate, though an off-year election doesn't raise the same resources issue, and the activists did defeat the candidate they wanted out. On the other hand, both Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann defeated GOP incumbents, and despite what most of us on the liberal side think of them, they're natural politicians in terms of appealing to the conservative base, which is enough in Alaska and Bachmann's old district, at least as the district was then. Then again, Obama lost heavily to Rep. Bobby Rush, Illinois 1, so even a natural politician can lose.

What is unique about this district?
Every state or district has it's unique circumstances, and those have to be considered. Ned Lamont for example ran a strong campaign to defeat Lieberman in the primary, but Connecticut law allowed Lieberman to file as an independent too, and Lamont was generally considered unready to defeat him in a general election. When Democrats tried to defeat Richard Jefferson in Louisiana 2 (New Orleans) in 2006 due to the money in the freezer (not an ideological challenge, but illustrative of this point), the voters were scattered all over the country and probably worried more about getting their lives back together than with politics back home. Though the state party backed the challenger, I'm guessing they didn't get the word out to absentee voters. So I'm suggesting failing to consider the unique circumstances of that district is both a frequent mistake and a critical one.

Is there opposition in the district?
It should seem obvious that challenges have to be driven from inside the district, but judging from the way national conservatives drove the NY 23 special election, not obvious enough. Money can come from all over the country for a high profile race, but volunteers have to be overwhelmingly local if they're going to be there for many weeks and not give the impression of outsiders telling locals how to vote. Moreover, the unique aspects of a race might be apparent only to those with local knowledge, as Hoffman's utter lack of knowledge about St. Lawrence shipping illustrates. Especially when a race is too low profile for polling, it takes local knowledge to get a feel for how a race is going.

Let's do a couple thought experiments: Rep. Colin Peterson, MN 7
Peterson jumps to mind because he's from Minnesota, but also because he's not merely a blue dog who frequently votes against his party, but in the health care vote, he voted no despite getting every concession. So let's ask my suggested questions in regard to Peterson.

If we challenge and beat him, can we win the general election? The short answer is I hope someone who knows the 7th better than me will give a definitive answer. The long answer is his district is generally considered to be Republican-leaning. He had a good case when he first won election that he was the only sort of DFLer who could win the 7th. Since then there has been a redistricting and the passage of time. Is the district bluer? If I recall correctly, McCain and Coleman won. But Peterson had 72%. Pending more information, I'd call the 7th purple leaning reddish. So a challenger might win, but the odds are longer than if we keep running Peterson.

What would Peterson do if he was challenged but reelected? He might be angry at Democrats, but his chairmanship while the democrats hold the majority depends on remaining a Democrat. He already votes against us often, so little loss there. I could see him switching parties if Republicans gain the majority, but only if they let him keep his seniority and maybe his chairmanship. So my assessment is the risk of retaliation is low.

Is there a strong enough challenger? No idea, so I again plead for someone from the 7th district to chime in. The fact I've heard nothing makes me suspect the answer is no.

What is unique about this district? It's heavily agricultural, and Peterson's position as agriculture chair puts him in a position to bring home the goodies. Asking DFL delegates and/or primary voters to replace him means asking them to give up having their representative in such a powerful position. Then general election voters might vote for Peterson and his seniority, but not for a DFLer in an open seat.

Is there opposition to Peterson in the district? I don't know. Again, I'll defer to someone from the 7th.

This experiment's result: the likely lack of a challenger makes the other questions moot. If there is a challenger and a party base looking for a challenger, both beating Peterson and winning the general election would be possible, but tough. In terms of all possible challenges, this just doesn't stand out as an opportunity. The next experiment, however, does.

Next experiment: Sen. Blanche Lincoln, Arkansas
Lincoln gave an impassioned speech on the Senate floor yesterday about the need to debate the health care bill, which would have been more impressive if she hadn't been the one other Democrats had spent so much time trying to convince. In other words, she's one of those useless people of self-importance so common in the Senate. Can we find someone better?

The answer to the first question, could a challenger win the general election, is probably no. Arkansas has become more Republican, and even unknown Republicans are polling well against Lincoln. However, if Democrats will lose the seat anyway, this might be the exception where a strong challenger could have a better chance than the incumbent.

What will she do if she's challenged and wins? She could switch parties, though at the risk of losing seniority, and of having no influence while the Democrats hold the majority. Her voting record is lousy but could be worse. However, since her odds of winning the general election are so small, I'm calling the risk low.

Is there a challenger? Maybe. Lt. Governor Bill Halter is being pushed from the left to challenge Lincoln, and hasn't said no. He's won statewide office once. His support for health care reform and role in organizing the free clinic in Little Rock yesterday put him in a strong place to challenge. He might be the ideal challenger.

What's unique? As already mentioned, Lincoln is unpopular and likely to lose. If keeping the seat depends on having the Republican implode, what is the risk of replacing her? She would not only have to buck the Republican trend, but if she filibusters health care reform, the base will at best not help her. A challenger would at least have a chance of winning Arkansas Democrats and financial support from outside the state. Halter wouldn't be getting a serious look if he didn't have support from within the state. My conclusion: this is a prime opportunity to remove a conservadem.

What was the point of this whole exercise?
I'm not interested in just analyzing elections instead of collecting stamps (though analyzing elections while collecting stamps: we got a party!). I'm interested in channeling liberal political activism to avoid problems like we have with health care reform, where a few conservadems can blow apart party initiatives supported by huge majorities of Democrats. Think about it: almost the entire health care debate is about just a few members of each house of Congress. These few members refuse to do what their party wants, ran on, and won a majority on. If they had been behind reform from the beginning, we would have had a bill passed long ago, and a better bill too. To get there, we need to be thinking strategically so enough of us recognize opportunities and combine resources.

So while health care is the line in the sand for the next election, this isn't about just health care. It's about all the legislative fights to come.

Update
What timing. Some of the members of the RNC are indeed proposing a rigid purity test. Get eight out of ten correct, or you're out. Period. Judging from what's happened to state legislators who voted to override Pawlenty's transportation veto, the Minnestoa GOP is going to sign on to these.

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This is a Debate we have to have (0.00 / 0)
But we need to realize that our job will be harder then their job was. If you don't believe government works, then purging your party down to the obstructionists is a rational choice.

What is our true objective? Considering that diversity is one of our core principles it is not to limit the debate. What I think we are seeking is to expand the debate so that our views and policy objectives have a fair hearing.

I don't think we should seek a purge. I believe what we really need is an ostracism. That is focusing on a limited number of targets a cycle, one or two senators and five or six representatives and really work to defeat them regardless of the consequences. Coupled with and ongoing and open process of target selection we can really have an impact on the debates. We will not gain respect unless we show we are willing to lose the seat.

 


The 7th (0.00 / 0)
I'm not from the 7th, but I am right on the border and am familiar with the southern part of the district.

Yes, Peterson got 72% of the vote in 08 (and 70 and 68 in his previous two elections), but he hasn't faced a serious challenger in years.  If a Republican had the resources to run a real race, Peterson would still probably win, but he'd maybe be knocked down to around 60%.

Could another Democrat win the seat?  Sure, but they wouldn't be far from the Peterson mold, and it wouldn't happen if they knocked off Peterson in a primary.  What are the chances of a primary victory anyway?  Well, most people in the district are still convinced that any Democrat more liberal than Colin would lose.  There are one or two good possible replacements should he choose to retire, but they will be starting at a deficit.

Besides, there is a good chance Colin doesn't run for re-election in 2012.  I believe the chairmanship limits of three terms are still in place, and I have a hard time seeing him stay after his district gets redistricted to be even more conservative (he'll probably pick up the counties directly south of the 7th, where I live, just because his district needs more people) without a committee chairmanship waiting for him in DC.


what other people will vote for (0.00 / 0)
One thing interesting in your response is the question of supporting a candidate not according to what we want, but according to what other people want. This is a perpetual problem for activists, at least on the DFL side, there must must still be few Republicans who wrestle with it. Most voters have the luxury of voting for whoever they want and not worrying about who other people would vote for, but those of us engaged in picking candidates are often having to decide whether to support the candidate who comes closest to our ideal, or who we think can get the most votes in the general election.

The problem is getting into other people's heads, especially people who we know only as statistics in election results, is imprecise at best. Or maybe my skepticism comes from instances I can recall where the more "electable" candidate lost, and where the candidate opponents regarded as unable to win actually did win.

But now that I've typed that, I can think of "unelectable" candidates who got the nomination and lost the general election. Complexity sucks sometimes.


[ Parent ]
What is purging? (0.00 / 0)
I don't consider primarying someone purging. I call it democracy. You help out a candidate that you think can best represent your ideals AND get them enacted. It is a combination of finding someone of ideals who is also able to govern and get things done. Supporting someone against Peterson wouldn't be purging the party, it would just be supporting someone you like better. Democracy.

That being said, once Peterson obtained the endorsement, democrats or at least the party at large, should support him. Primarying someone is democracy. Backstabbing them once they are in the party is what Republicans do, and that is purging.

It is, however, a two way street. Being part of a party means you support your party along procedural lines. You can always vote your conscience or district, but if you screw the party on procedural stuff you purged yourself. In other words, goodbye to any Dem that filibusters their own party.

I would rather have a blue dog in the room with me talking, then a Rethug across the hall saying nothing but no.

 


I'm with Judeling, above, (0.00 / 0)
that we should focus on trying to make examples of just a handful of candidates, rather than any kind of large-scale 'purging.'  Let the GOP continue to f. themselves with that.

I tend to think of national politics in the context of what I regard as the biggest long-term electoral problem of our time.  That is, bringing the last real bastion of hard-line reactionary politics in the country - arguably, the entire 'industrialized' world - the red-state south, into the 21st century.  I'm very hesitant to support targeting any red-state Dem., like Blanch Lincoln, in that context.  It seems an incredible long-shot that we'd get someone 'better' in that seat, any time soon.  But of course it bears close watching.


These REdstate Dems don't need targeting.... (0.00 / 0)
Blanche Lincoln is her own worst enemy. There will be no excitement for her among the Democratic base, and Tea Baggers will never vote for her. She's trying to get the moderates while losing her base.

I remember one a-hole Democratic Rep on the radio, who asked, "If you want me to vote for health care, tell me where all the progressive rally's are?"

There are no progressive rally's because Democratic politicians have given us nothing to rally for. Ohhhh, let me rally for a plan that funnels tax payer money to the private insurance companies who are the problem in the first place. 65 million folks voted for Obama for him to implement HCR.

Anyway, I am meandering, but my point is we don't even need to purge Lincoln/Nelson/et al. If they don't pass meaningful HCR they are screwed and all Dems are screwed in general.  



[ Parent ]
Then we're better off removing them ourselves (0.00 / 0)
If the conservadems who stop health care reform are bound to lose, that makes a powerful argument for challenging them.  Most won't have a strong primary challenger, but this just means those who do will need support from wherever they can get it. Those of us outside Arkansas can't pick Lincoln's challenger, but we can donate once Arkansas Democrats make their choice. Likewise, the netroots base should be ready to identify and help these challengers, rather than employing the scattershot approach of the Republicans. They'll burn a lot of financial and personal resources going after every incumbent who is impure. We need not do that.

[ Parent ]
Each case (0.00 / 0)
is different. I would argue that if we truly want to send a message, that those of us outside of Arkansas should help pick a challenger. Indeed in this case I could even come up with a very plausible candidate. What would you say to Draft Clark v 2.0 a call to lead.

That brings us to a different case. Colin Petersen. To be honest as far as the progressive cause goes, replacing him with a clone would help if only to strip away seniority. That is truly what makes him a fitting target across a broad range of progressive issues. Further Petersen as an IP congressman caucusing with the democrats would be an acceptable alternative. That is entirely feasible. At a minimum we should work to deny him the endorsement even if he then chooses to run in the DFL primary.  


[ Parent ]
Is this our next step??? (0.00 / 0)
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes...

I would say it would be  step off the same cliff. Let's let those assholes commit suicide first.


Actually, (0.00 / 0)
I'm all for letting them commit political suicide only, because "first" implies someone goes second. Besides, I don't think I could belong to a party with that purity test, even if I was right on all ten positions.

[ Parent ]
Are we Fans or Players (0.00 / 0)
Sitting back and cheering is fine. But if we ever want to be more then fans the powers that are have got to start looking over their left shoulders with if not fear at least concern.


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